Friday, September 6, 2013

some smart members of congress know that Obama is lying, here is Alan Grayson's take (D-Florida)


  1. I am not alone in my position that the Obama administration is either manipulating the intelligence or have knowledge the allegation is a fraud on the American People.

    Who's Lying? Brennan, Obama, or Both? by Ray McGovern, September 6, 2013.

    Ray McGovern is retired from the CIA. From 1981 to 1985 he was one of the intelligence officers in charge of the daily briefing of President Ronald Reagan and Vice President George H. W. Bush.

    "Editor Note: Despite the Obama administration’s supposedly 'high confidence' regarding Syrian government guilt over the Aug. 21 chemical attack near Damascus, a dozen former U.S. military and intelligence officials are telling President Obama that they are picking up information that undercuts the Official Story."

    "We regret to inform you [President Obama] that some of our former co-workers are telling us, categorically, that contrary to the claims of your administration, the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was NOT responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21, and that British intelligence officials also know this. In writing this brief report, we choose to assume that you have not been fully informed because your advisers decided to afford you the opportunity for what is commonly known as 'plausible denial.'"

    Yes, as I stated above, "...the administration, while using intermediaries (to claim no knowledge or control... also known as plausible deniability) to actually do the logistics, know what was going on."

    Another passage from McGovern's analysis:

    "The Intelligence

    There is a growing body of evidence from numerous sources in the Middle East — mostly affiliated with the Syrian opposition and its supporters — providing a strong circumstantial case that the August 21 chemical incident was a pre-planned provocation by the Syrian opposition and its Saudi and Turkish supporters. The aim is reported to have been to create the kind of incident that would bring the United States into the war."

    Please read the complete analysis at the below link:

    And note the members of the steering committee at bottom of analysis.

    Who's Lying? Brennan, Obama, or Both?

    Another commenter, who disagrees with this analysis has little or no credibility next to McGovern and the members of the steering committee.

    1. Grayson and the nay-sayers are dead wrong.

      If Obama was seeking a provocation he would have struck by now. But the fact is Obama doesn't really want to strike. He's thrown the matter into the Congress when he clearly didn't have to. He's making "the case" for a limited, LIMITED punitive strike ONLY simply because he's painted himself into a corner and must continue advocating for some kind of little strike.

      Let's make one thing clear - there is no real evidence that the chemicals used were other than Syrian government munitions. No one has provided any evidence - merely conjecture.

      Putin is lying [as usual] claiming otherwise because he's seeking to sway US public opinion. And as usual public opinion is responding just as he would like [including people on this board].

      Nothing that Obama or anyone is doing is consistent with the idea that this is a "false flag."

      If this were a "false flag" the US would be bombing Syria this weekend.

      The War Powers Act clearly gives the President to undertake these kinds of actions within a limited time period.

      Because Obama is reluctant to move, or make any decision, he's thrown the matter to the Congress [where he really hopes it will be defeated].

    2. As it is the Islamist opposition in Syria is the only opposition who has been getting any support. The Saudis and others have been providing it, and it was working rather well until Hezbollah came to Assad's rescue.

      The "Free Syrian Army" was principle secular opposition, and was led by former Syrian Army personnel who defected from Assad.

      However the US made no efforts to arm the "Free Syrian Army" because of the UN Arms Embargo, and this situation has led to their marginalization.

      At this point the secular opposition is too weak to succeed, and now the battle is between Assad and Hezbollah versus various groups PRETENDING to be Islamist so as to obtain Saudi support.

      My information is that most of the "Islamist" opposition in Syria isn't sincerely Islamist, or "al-qaeda," but are pretending to be in order to obtain Saudi support.

    3. The "Use of Chemical Weapons" is a canard, and Obama simply painted himself into a corner when he made his "red line" statement previously. Now of course he's lying by claiming he never made that statement because he doesn't want to make a decision. He's going to claim that none of this is his doing.

      In my opinion according to international law and practice a STRONGER CASE could have been made for intervention when Hezbollah crossed the border and intervened in the fight.

      When Hezbollah crossed into Syria they broke the US arms embargo as well as several other UN resolutions.

      The US should have acted immediately to gather international opinion against Hezbollah at that point.

      That's when the UN, the Arab League, NATO and others could have been brought into the issue.

      Hezbollah is a foreign intervention into what's supposed to be an internal matter.

    4. Mit, your opinion is dead, here.

      You can't deal with facts & evidence.

      But I got news for you.

      The larger conversation among Americans has rendered your agenda, dead.

      Everybody who reads your comments know your opinion is worthless and without merit.

      AMONG THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, knowledge of this false flag (perpetrated by, at best a rogue click, but more likely with knowledge by the President of the United States) is spreading like wildfire across the prairie.

      Read the comments on the Huffington Post, lead article, "Democrats face Syria strike divide"

      The comments are deadly for Obama.

      Yes, they don't discuss the False Flag, that's true, but a MILITARY STRIKE against Syria? Absolutely not!

      Actually, HELL NO.

      And, we know that's all you really care about.

      And, warmongers are doubling down by attempting to link a Syrian attack and going right into an Iranian attack.

      The warmongers have badly miscalculated.

      Opinions have formed already in concrete among the American People AGAINST THIS MILITARY STRIKE (war).

      Combining it with an Iranian military strike is a self-inflicted death blow to not just the Syrian strike, but also the warmonger's fevered dreams of an Iranian strike.

      The people know the agenda.

      And they want no part of it.

      These warmongers are only exposing themselves, just like you have to all the readers of this blog.

      This covert operation is dead.

      If the perpetrators of this operation persist they will also be dead.


      Those who defy the American People will be liquidated from politics.

    5. "If the perpetrators of this operation persist they will also be dead. The American people have spoken."


      Are you really so megalomanical that you think you can threaten the lives of government operators, or that you speak for the American public?

      Take a chill pill and please leave out threats of death against others from this board.

      The purpose of the board should be to given opinions, not screeds about your own feelings of powerlessness and helplessness.

      All of us here are powerless to effect any of these matters.

      We are only spectators here.

    6. Mit, I'm talking politics, as in "politically dead". I should have made that clear, my error.

      The Syrian covert operation is a naked act of aggression against Syria. That will be exposed and the political consequences will be enormous.

      Mit, actually, we, on this board are not "powerless".

      I assure you, I have been calling Congressman & Senators, and calling into radio call-in shows. And, together, with my fellow Americans, we have not been "powerless".

      In fact, without the full-square opposition of the American People coupled with their action to call Congressman & Senators, and go to 'town-hall' meetings and expressing their heart-felt opposition, this gross violation of international law would have already happened.

      So, again, as with so many other of your statements, you are wrong.

      The perpetrators of this scheme counted on the American People to feel powerless and, thus, apathetic, in the face of their criminal intent & actions.

      But, thank God, the American People rejected suggestions, such as yours, to feel "powerless" and, thus, do nothing.

      Mit, look at the polls of the American People and the call in ratios to Congress against this proposed military strike.

      The American People have spoken and will continue to speak out against this naked act of aggression in violation of international law.

      Yes, a military strike would be a naked act of aggression in violation of the U. N. Charter, of which, the U. S. is a founding signatory.

      How would it be in violation of the U. N. Charter? Simple, without U. N. Security Council authorization, a military attack, without a demonstrable imminent threat of military attack or an actual military attack, is a violation of international law.

      In fact, it is a violation of the Nuremberg Principle, set down by the victors of World War II, that 'naked aggression' by one nation-state against another is the highest crime against humanity.

      And, what is the punishment for such actions?

    7. The "American people" are just as clueless about what their government is doing in this situation as they were in the run-up to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

      After 9-11 the "American people" believed anything they were told when there was no reason to, and now they won't believe anything, regardless of any reason or circumstance.

      Over 200 years of American history has proven that the "American people" can be counted on to be IN ERROR about whatever the current issue is, such as:

      1.wanting to attack France in 1810
      2.attacking England in 1812
      3.invading Mexico in 1845
      4.invading other states [treason] in 1861
      5.believing the Spanish sunk the USS Maine
      6.believing the "Zimmerman Telegram" 1917
      7.believing Soviet propaganda in 1941
      8.believing that Russia and China were one power 1950
      9.believing in the "domino theory" 1963
      10.believing that the Talaban caused 9-11 2001
      11.believing Iraq caused 9-11 2002

      If the US is the "last great hope" for anything it's maybe the "last great hope" that Lucifer still runs this planet.

      The most evil plans are usually operated by those proclaiming themselves all-rightous.

      The US is sinking under the waves - debt, poverty, indifference, apathy, etc.....

      In my hometown of San Antonio there are now over 900 criminal gangs in operation....


      It's the same for most large cities now.

      The US is over.

      The strongest economies in the future will be China, Germany, Norway, Finland, Korea [will be unified soon].

      Forget about the US.

      It was never that good.

    8. I invite every American to watch the National Geographic series, "Drugs, Inc." on Youtube.

      It shows the reality of criminal life and the truth about the "American public" and what it has become in the present age.

      People like those who post on this board have no fucking idea of what really goes on among the lower 50% of the real people who live in this country.

      The US is the cesspool of the developed world.

      You can't find the kind of widespread meyhem, slaughter, venality, and stupidity that is widespread in America anywhere else in the first world.

      America is really a third world industrial society such as Russia or China today. There is almost no upward mobility anymore, and most of the kids in public school are outperformed by 30 other countries LOL.

      America is a joke.

      Medicine [a totally corrupt industry] is the biggest business in the US today - number two is NARCOTICS.

      More people die from illegally-obtained prescription drugs in the US than any other single cause of non-disease death, more than auto accidents or the total dead in Vietnam.

      In the last ten years 100,000 people have been killed in Mexico due to the "American people's" use of drugs.

      The Mexican cartels now control 90% of US drugs - 60 billion dollars a year - the largest and only source of income keeping Mexico afloat.

      The "American people" don't believe in attacking Assad because they're all high on drugs LOL.

    9. And if I know anything about Dr.P....


    10. Such a positive upbeat note.

      But read the news, the Senate is delaying its test vote... well, because Reid doesn't have the votes.

      The House will not vote for authorization.

      Congressional support is crumbling because of the American People's opposition to another unnecessary & senseless war.

      And a serious proposal from the Russians and welcomed by the Assad government for having international control and evacuation of Syria's chemical weapons stockpile, which Kerry and Obama are bound to explore.

      President Obama dare not launch an act of naked aggression in violation of international law in the face of such diplomatic developments.

      (Chemical weapons are not an effective military option anyhow -- surely the Syrians are seeing that now. They only serve as a pretext for others to launch naked aggression cloaked in humanitarian clothes.)

      War averted for now.

      As Assad's Syrian Armed Forces continue to meet & defeat the "rebel" terrorists.

      I suspect the international community will now put pressure on the terrorist's sponsors to cut off the flow of weapons (read Saudi Arabia, Turkey and, indeed, the United States). Bandar Bush's gambit has failed with the silver lining being that one of the world's chemical weapons stockpiles will be removed from circulation and that's a good thing.

      Because too many people know the truth, now.

      But even if that doesn't happen, the terrorists were on the ropes (thus, the hail mary false flag) and morale will be sorely depressed among the terrorists/jihadist mercenaries -- knowing there will be no cavalry coming over the hill -- by this diplomatic development and they will wither away as they face the prospect of death at the hands of the Syrian Armed Forces.

      Mercenaries tend to flee at the prospect of certain death.

      Oh, by the way, NATO intelligence has estimated Assad is supported by 70% of the Syrian People.

      Any of these warmongering western leaders would be happy to have that kind of popular support.

      Remember, last year, Syrians voted for a parliament with multiple parties running for office and voted for a new constitution.

      Regime change has failed.

      Blessed be the peace makers.

      Diplomacy to lower the temperature on the Middle East pressure cooker. Now, that is in the vital national security interest of the United States.

      Hell, I might have to tip my diplomatic top hat to the president if this all works out.

    11. More people have died in Mexico in the last ten years from the drug wars than have died in Afghanistan....

      Mexico is a narco-state, a failed state, and the US is totally responsible, not only for it's social ills which breed drug use but also for doing absolutely nothing to remedy the situation in Mexico.

      Everybody knows who and where the 60 billion in revenues is laundered...

      It's a joke. To the American political class of narcissicistic dim-wits like the Clintons, Bushes, and Obamas they are as indifferent about a hundred thousand ordinary people dead in Mexico as they were about 500,000 dead villagers in Cambodia when they found out American bombs had killed them.

      Americans feel less sympathy for foreigners than a German policeman feels when he puts a Jew into a pit in Lithuania and blows his brains out.

      Americans don't give a shit about anyone's lives if they arn't Americans.

    12. Anaconda,

      If the Congress denies approval to strike why don't you conclude that's what Obama wanted?

      As a psychological analyst of political actors Dr.P will agree with me that Obama doesn't really want to strike Syria. Dr. P agrees with me that Obama threw it to the Congress as his "way out," his "escape" from this action and it's responsibility.

      I know Dr.P agrees.

    13. btw...

      Study Obama's legislative history and you'll see that he never voted on any issue of consequence. On most votes he was "absent."

      He's incapable of making any decision which may cause someone to dislike him...

      Every action he makes is based on a calculation of who he may please or displease....

  2. Another passage from Ray McGovern's analysis:

    "In addition, we have learned that on August 13-14, 2013, Western-sponsored opposition forces in Turkey started advance preparations for a major, irregular military surge. Initial meetings between senior opposition military commanders and Qatari, Turkish and U.S. intelligence officials took place at the converted Turkish military garrison in Antakya, Hatay Province, now used as the command center and headquarters of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and their foreign sponsors.

    Senior opposition commanders who came from Istanbul pre-briefed the regional commanders on an imminent escalation in the fighting due to “a war-changing development,” which, in turn, would lead to a U.S.-led bombing of Syria.

    At operations coordinating meetings at Antakya, attended by senior Turkish, Qatari and U.S. intelligence officials as well as senior commanders of the Syrian opposition, the Syrians were told that the bombing would start in a few days. Opposition leaders were ordered to prepare their forces quickly to exploit the U.S. bombing, march into Damascus, and remove the Bashar al-Assad government"

    This passage, if accurate, is the smoking gun which points to foreknowledge by the Obama administration (or a rogue clique within the Obama administration) that the Assad government is not responsible for the gas attack on August 21, 2013.

    (Perhaps, allowing that it is a "rogue clique" within the Obama administration and not with knowledge of the President, himself, will allow Democratic & Republican leaders to see it is in the national interest to investigate and expose this fraud on the American People... although, I suspect the President does have personal knowledge of the fraud.)

    The above analysis was originally published at the website and titled "Obama Warned on Syrian Intel"

    In the spirit of giving proper credit I link the analysis from the original website below:

    Obama Warned on Syrian Intel by Ray McGovern, September 6, 2013

    Dr. Pieczenik, perhaps, this provides enough information for you to make personal inquiries of your contacts within the apppropriate circles.

    If this can be exposed, it just might be the "loose thread" that can unravel the whole ball of yarn (and perhaps, allow people's eyes to be open to so much more that needs to be understood by the American People if they are to save their republic).

    The American People need a helping hand in this matter.

    God grant the survival of the American Republic.

    As one wise sage once said: the "last best hope of earth."

  3. Putin at g20 summit categorically states that the chemical attacks were the work of rebels in order to bring in western allies. Its probably fair to say everyone is aware of this save to say Obama & Kerry , Cameron & Hague. (Hague being rather apt as this is where this quartet should end up if they execute their plot!) Putin also states that Russia will help Syria! In point of fact its probably the most straightforward and honest remark made in this whole sordid affair! Speaking for myself who has no training in intelligence (though intelligence would be greatly appreciated in worldly affairs) it seems to me that the overwhelming majority oppose any action against Assad! Could it be that people have just had a plateful of the lies, deceit, extortion, glad handing ect ect??? We saw the mess of Iraq we saw the mess in Afghanistan we also saw Libya effectively turned into a lawless country! So what's the denominator here? IT DOESNT WORK!!! We are not so keen to reprimand Bahrain or Saudi Arabia we actively reward Qatar with a world cup ect ect" the inconsistencies are blatant and its the pursuit of cash and wealth that greases the wheels in almost every case! What I have tended to notice that where there is a country that has a leader that tends to do good for his people it so happens these same people are derided as dictators! Yet some of the cruelest have been backed by the west by the tune of millions and millions!!! Its simple people are seeing through this and believe it or not an Oxford or Harvard education isn't required!

  4. Here's a link for those interested al-cia-da-isolated-at-un-putin-will.html?m=1

  5. Dr. Steve Pieczenik M.D. Ph.D., for the record, I lost my white shirt with printed black design on the back and small printed design (red markings) on the front either last night or this morning (today is September 8, 2013). Why is this important??? Well, if it was stolen, WEED AND SEED and the C.I.A. have a dirty shirt with my D.N.A. that can be used in a "FRAME JOB"!

    As you know, from previous comments, corrupt GOVERNMENT (including the C.I.A.) have completely taken-out my entire background (all RECORDS, including RAP SHEET (CRIMINAL HISTORY))! WEED AND SEED used an arrest (December 30, 2010) to switch my FINGER PRINTS and my RAP SHEET! Therefore, at my arraignment on January 4, 2011 (11CF0028) in Department CENTRAL JAIL 1, the RAP SHEET given to the COMMISSIONER did NOT CONTAIN 03CF1264 and possibly 08CF0024--my two prior felony convictions (both violations of California H & S Code Section 11350(a) (possession of cocaine))!

    As stated in other comments, on February 16, 2012 (Department C60) COMMISSIONER HALL read into the COURT RECORD several felony cases attached to only my first and last name with NO "MIDDLE" NAME (Howard)! This being done while the Bailiff (ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPUTY) was trying to detract me at the CAGE in the courtroom!

    As stated BEFORE, WEED AND SEED is primarily very corrupt ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES put together by the prior SHERIFF (serving five years in a Colorado Federal Prison)! These said ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES are affiliated with the C.I.A. for drug trafficking purposes, while they (WEED AND SEED) bust the competition!

    When the BUSH FAMILY, SKULL AND BONES, THE C.I.A. (controlled by SKULL AND BONES), and the JESUIT ORDER decided to annihilate me over E-Mails sent during FALL OF 2006, getting WEED AND SEED to go along was NO PROBLEM! Said E-Mails (FALL OF 2006) to illegitimate George W. Bush Jr. (SKULL AND BONES), THE C.I.A., THE D.O.D., some of the U.S. CONGRESS, and some of the mass-media stated to "STAY OUT OF IRAN;" or both Russia and China will NUKE THE UNITED STATES! When Bush Jr. and others received the said E-Mails, there was an investigation conducted by the C.I.A. and others (including the JESUIT ORDER) on me! In the interim, the PLANS OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER were stayed! When they came up short, and they determined: "HE MUST BE DESTROYED," there was instructions from CITY OF LONDON and the VATICAN concerning me! Hence, all my RECORDS have been illegally modified or erased to substantiate an "IDENTITY SWITCH"! Eventually, they want me in Prison with a "floating identity" and FINISHED (possibly assassinated in Prison)! So far, the 1994 arrangement (partially overturned by GOD during 2005 (identity switch and frame job part only)) between GOD and the former fallen immortals is being respected (NO ASSASSINATIONS)!

  6. This was the plan:

    The covert operation in Syria was failing. The perpetrators needed a 'game changer' event. The purpose of the overall Syrian operation was always 'regime change'.

    That objective was in danger of not being achieved, and, in fact, was in danger of an epic failure.

    A failure which would expose their limited power, encouraging nation-states in the Middle East and other regions of the world to chart an independent path, not subservience to various factions of the western power elite focused in international banking & corporate circles with their cat's paw, the United States' military.

    So, set up a false flag gas attack and blame it on Assad, then come in with a quick 'shock & awe' bombing campaign, under cover of which, the "rebel" terrorists with their CIA, MI-6, Turkish, and Saudi "advisors" would make a blitzkrieg attack to Damascus to overthrow the Assad government, and, then, with a fait accompli, set up a puppet government or achieve a 'Libyan style' wrecking of the country.

    Either one would suffice.

    Look, the perpetrators of this operation were willing to see untold human suffering in order to achieve their objectives.

    President Barak Obama knew all of this.

    President Barak Obama is an international war criminal.

    1. Anaconda,

      Please stop referring to "covert operations" as you have no experience in them whatsoever and you dismiss out of hand the opinions of those who do.

      You wouldn't know what a "covert operation" is or isn't.

    2. Anaconda wrote on the immediate prior John Kerry post: "Okay, I'll bite, [Mit] provide facts and knowledge that provides a foundation for an informed opinion [from you, [Mit]."

      But no response. You know the old saying, Mit, "Put up or shut up."

    3. Already provided conclusions. My sources are primary whereas McGovern's are not.

      All McGovern says is that he's repeating statements made by actors who he doesn't know and has no experience with.

      As for myself my information comes from people I know and have experience with.

    4. In 2002 and 2003 I was everywhere saying that Iraq had no WMD programs. Furthermore I also said that CIA, Bush, Powell, et al were lying about them, as well as the "Laurie Mylroie" skreeds that Iraq was behind 9-11.....

      In that case I also was relying on primary sources.

    5. I was in school with Laurie when she was at Harvard with Nadav Safran, and both of them are Israel agents. While I was there Safran was exposed in the Harvard Chrimson as taking over $60,000 from CIA without informing Harvard...

      I don't think it's any secret that Safran and Myroie make claims without any evidence.
      Right now all the claims that Assad wasn't the source of the recent chem attack in Damascus are also without evidence.

    6. Sorry, Mit, you haven't provided any evidence. Not even statements from unidentified sources that can be analyzed for internal consistency or consistency compared to other sources.

      Where are those sources on this website.

      All you are doing is blowing smoke.

      We, the readers of this website, don't know if you were doing anything, such as, "In 2002 and 2003 I was everywhere saying that Iraq had no WMD programs."

      Your whole comment at September 10, 2013 at 1:03 PM is unsupported by any evidence.

      You sound like the Obama administration.

      Actually, there are substantial & compelling multiple sources of evidence that the "rebel" terrorists launched the gas.

      Some of which I have provided, but mostly I have relied on readers own research.

      Frankly, you sound like a clever agent of Israeli interests, but I don't really know, one way or the other.

      Take your last comment immediately above, September 10, 2013 at 1:07 PM: What does that have to do with anything on this post, it sounds like a crude attempt to suggest you are against Israeli spying, thus, not just an Israeli mouthpiece, but when I, and other readers, look at your statements over the course of this post and prior posts, concerning Syria, you are consistent 100% with Israeli or neocon positions.

      Yes, you go into lots of distractions, but when presented with arguments, facts, or evidence, you consistently fail to "grasp the nettle" that those items present and which contradict your position. Rather, you either entirely ignore the items or just give sweeping general denials without providing any facts or evidence which specifically challenge the facts, evidence, or arguments I have presented.

      Two things that sound contradictory: You are too slick by half and, yet, at the same time, you treat the readers as uniformed without their own basis of knowledge.

      I hammered you above.

      Hey, calling all readers, if any of you agree with Mit, please chime in. It's easy to comment, I would welcome others agreeing with Mit. But I suspect we'll not see it.

      Mit, as I have pointed out before, you make many interesting comments about past events (I suspect this is done to build credibility), but regarding current events, you consistently support the power elites position.

      As I stated, above, your opinion is worthless and without merit. Again, I'd love to see somebody, anybody, present comments agreeing with you.

      The most consistent pattern of your comments about current events is agreeing with Israeli government positions (or at least right-wing Israeli positions. There are many different opinions expressed in Israel, itself).

      Another pattern is that you are consistently oppositional to Dr. Pieczenik's positions on current events or policies.

      I suspect that was your original reason for commenting on this blog.

      Again, I find your opinions about past events, where there is no chance of changing current policies or opinions, interesting.

      But you and Obama are one regarding current foreign policy, specifically Syria, probably because Obama is a puppet and you (in your own mind) think you could do better job representing the powers that control Obama.

      It sounds like you are jealous.

      I don't deny you are clever and it's true I don't know your provenance, but in the simplest terms, your statements are unsupported by facts & evidence, and are merely naked assertions.

      That's not persuasive, that's why I state your opinions are worthless & without merit.

      Readers go back and read the Russia Today interview with Ray McGovern and his written analysis.

    7. If you find McGovern's opinions based on third hand information from biased sources to be more credible than myself that's your call.

      It's up to every person to decide who they find credible or not.

      Just remember...

      For every public speaker like McGovern who possesses his interpretation there are more public figures with greater expertise than he on this subject which hold a contrary view.

      Your assumption that this debate is between McGovern and only myself is false and misleading, just as all of your claims on this board are similarly distorted to fit your loony conspiratorial view of the universe.

    8. Ah, just count up the number of establishment figures who tout the establishment party-line. So, they must be telling the truth.

      No, it's about the nature & quality of the facts & evidence available, not counting up authorities who spout the official party-line.

      I make no assumption that it's between you and McGovern. It's about facts & evidence. And you haven't presented any facts & evidence to support your position.

      That's all.

      Mit wrote: "just as all of your claims on this board are similarly distorted to fit your loony conspiratorial view of the universe."

      Well let's see: Mit commented at September 9, 2013 at 8:57 PM, on this post and proceeded to list a whole bunch of, what, conspiracies? Where according to him the people were easily mislead by conspiratorial leaders because the people "believed anything".

      "1.wanting to attack France in 1810
      2.attacking England in 1812
      3.invading Mexico in 1845
      4.invading other states [treason] in 1861
      5.believing the Spanish sunk the USS Maine
      6.believing the "Zimmerman Telegram" 1917
      7.believing Soviet propaganda in 1941
      8.believing that Russia and China were one power 1950
      9.believing in the "domino theory" 1963
      10.believing that the Talaban caused 9-11 2001
      11.believing Iraq caused 9-11 2002"

      So, which is it Mit? Or which Mit? The Mit who subscribes to conspiracies or the one who claims conspiracies are loony & distorted.

      Nice try, I've only been discussing Syria, it's you who tried to distract with a long list of "conspiracies" (I offer no opinion on the veracity of Mit's list, as it was only a ploy to distract away from Syria).

      Have a nice day :-)

    9. Some conspiracies are real and some are not. If you're going to see a conspiracy everywhere in every situation then you're only following an ideology and not looking to the facts in the particular case at hand.

      As Kissinger says,

      "Being intelligent implies the ablity to make distinctions."

    10. For that matter I see that this is what Dr.P does....applying a rigid ideology or ideological framework to every and all situation without considering alternative explainations.

      Furthermore I think Dr.P puts his ideological views ABOVE his psychological training in interpreting events and personalities.

      I think I'm providing far more psychologically-derived explainations for actors' behaviors than Dr.P does.

      I don't know why Dr.P doesn't talk more in terms of the psycho-dynamics of Obama, Putin, Assad, etc....

      This is his real area of "inside information" and expertise but instead he would rather put forward these childish screeds calling people names.

      Shame on you. You're an adult Dr.P please act like one.

  7. A follow up interview with Ray McGovern, CIA, daily briefer for President Ronald Reagan.

    'CIA fabricated evidence to lure US into war with Syria', Russia Today interview with Ray McGovern, September 9, 2013.


    RT [Russia Today]: We heard John Kerry backtrack a little yesterday, by saying that Obama hasn't made a decision yet on Syria. The US President was much more certain about an attack on Syria a week ago. Why the softening of their stance?

    RM [Ray McGovern]: You know what happened a week ago. Last Friday, Kerry went before the cameras and said: ‘We got to do this. And here’s not the intelligence assessment, mind you – but the government’s assessment.’ Meaning the White House had a chance to massage it, edit it. It didn’t hold up to scrutiny. Now, what happened? Apparently the military got to the president, and I see some evidence of this. Next thing we know the president changes his mind on Saturday afternoon, and the only thing that really intervened was that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey, telling the president: “Look. It’s going to be really hard to explain why we have to do it now. We could do it tomorrow, or next week, or next month. We don’t really have to do it now.” And the president said that in justifying this delay. What’s more evidence? Lindsey Graham and John McCain the next day just took off after the Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman in a very personal and vindictive way. Because they know the military leaders went to the president saying, “Look, we know you’re being told this is going to be easy and limited and all that – but these guys and gals don’t know a thing about war. We do. And we know that it’s not going to be so easy, so if you’re going to do this, you’d better gain wide support, because, otherwise, your presidency is over."

    I'd say, Mr. McGovern provides a good explanation showing that, indeed, General Martin Dempsey, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff did meet with President Obama late Friday night to explain why not going to Congress was a bad course of action.

    An excellent follow up interview with Ray McGovern, the author of the open letter to the president of the United States linked above in a comment to this post.

    'CIA fabricated evidence to lure US into war with Syria'

    I highly recommend reading it.

    1. Dear Readers, notice Mit had an ample opportunity to respond to the McGovern interview, in fact he made several comments regarding my position, above, after I posted McGovern's interview, but chose not to respond, even though I posted it to contradict an earlier assertion by Mit that Dempsey didn't state that the Syria strike could have wider unintended consequences and talked to Obama about it and that is why Obama, along with mushrooming public opposition did not strike on his own.

      Mit fails to back his own position when presented evidence to the contrary.

    2. Anaconda,

      Unlike yourself I don't have all day to spend on this board. Unlike yourself I have a life and a career.

      I've previously responded to McGovern's opinions. You're assertion to the contrary is like all you're claims - they without foundation bur rather are an accumulation of unsubstantiated claims based upon conjecture which dissolves under examination.

    3. Mit, that's your stand pat response, but when I ask for you to provide or point to those previous responses so I can verify them, you never do.

      Why? Because there aren't any... other than general denials in the form of naked assertions without any supporting facts & evidence, or arguments which incorporate facts & evidence.

      Mit, you're not good at this sort of thing.

      Your persistence... is it simple egotism or disinformation? I don't know.

    4. Uh...

      Are you asking me to put you on the phone with people I know?

      That's kinda silly.

      Get real.

      You CHOOSE to believe in what McGovern and his ilk, Alex Jones, Webster Tarpley, etc. even though you haven't spoken personally to any of their "sources."

      You are simple selective in terms of what you choose to accept as "fact and evidence" based on whether it supports or opposes your pre-conceived ideological interpretations.

      The biggest give-away of this of course is the personal manner which you have in responding and seeking to ridicule people who have a different point of view.

      If your beliefs were actually based on unassailable facts instead of opinion and conjecture you'd be more secure in your positions.

      The fact that you use ridicule to deal with the opposition means that you are insecure in your opinons because you know they are not as factual as you claim.

    5. Note that I just gave a psychologically-based interpretation of someone's behavior.
      According to my training Anaconda is exhibiting "cognative rigidity," which is "distorting" his ability to correctly interpret data without error. It is a commonly known phenomena of political psychology known as a form of "misperception" which Robert Jervis and others have written about.

      Dr.P I know you have read Robert Jervis.

      This is what Dr.P should be doing rather than he endless screeds and ridicule of public figures.

      Dr.P please grow up and start giving knowedgable explanations of what we see in the news based on your real expertise....

      ...not the conjecture and opinions you've been dishing out.

      And maybe you can do it with better spelling than I have.

  8. Nice try, if you provided any evidence, I would consider it, but when all you do is make unsupported assertions, then why should anybody listen to you?

    1. Look on Ray McGovern's site and you'll see that now he claims that Israel was behind the whole mess.

      How does that fit into your "US Covert Operation" description you provided above?

  9. Mit, I know McGovern says Israel benefits from this situation. From the piece I already linked to above many days before your latest comment where you falsely claim McGovern accused Israel of being behind the false flag gas attack:

    "Cui bono?

    That the various groups trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad have ample incentive to get the U.S. more deeply involved in support of that effort is clear. Until now, it has not been quite as clear that the Netanyahu government in Israel has equally powerful incentive to get Washington more deeply engaged in yet another war in the area. But with outspoken urging coming from Israel and those Americans who lobby for Israeli interests, this priority Israeli objective is becoming crystal clear."

    But that's not saying Israel was behind the false flag gas attack.

    Mit, I guess you are lazy because McGovern states Israel would benefit in the open letter I already linked to above addressed to the president, "Obama Warned on Syrian Intel" by Ray McGovern, September 6, 2013

    And I agree with McGovern. It is a sound conclusion, given AIPAC's feverish lobbying of Congress for a strike, the almost unanimous neocon demand for a strike, and the statements made by Netanyahu supporting the strike.

    Obviously, all those above think it would benefit Israel or they wouldn't support a military strike.

    Are you that arrogant and indifferent to the truth that you don't even bother to read the links provided? No wonder you can't respond intelligently or respond with any cogent arguments.

    I see you have no problem with misleading readers, which goes to your character & credibility.

  10. Let me clarify before Mit twists my comment.

    McGovern doesn't state Israel orchestrated the false flag gas attack and he doesn't mention Israel when discussing who possibly orchestrated the gas attack. What McGovern does say is that Israel benefits from it. Now that does often lead to the perpetrators, but here the terrorists have their own motives for perpetrating the gas attack and the U. S. has a motive in seeing their proxies don't get militarily defeated.

    But as General Wesley Clark stated, Syria is one of the seven countries in five years which were planned to be attacked, culminating in an attack on Iran.

    Sure, Israel wants the U. S. to attack Iran and, quite likely, the neocons were the master architects of this stepping-stone plan culminating on an attack on Iran. Likely, factions in Israel and the neocons are in agreement on this plan, but McGovern doesn't say Israel was involved in orchestrating this tactical false flag gas attack and I suspect they weren't in the tactical loop for this event. Although, I suspect factions in Israel didn't want to see the terrorists defeated as Syria is the final preparatory stepping-stone before the final assault on Iran.

    Iran is the ultimate objective in all these machinations.